After appeasing Chen Guang and his family, Chen Qi whispered to Su Zhe: "Prosecutor Su, do you want to discuss this matter with the imperial court?"
Su Zhe was stunned for a moment and couldn't help asking: "Why do we need to discuss it with the imperial court?"
Chen Qi said: "This case may not seem big, but as Chen Guang said, there are quite a lot of people and agencies involved. Besides, the way the case is tried in the imperial court, it may get out of hand."
Su Zhe pondered for a while and said: "Although what you said makes sense, our Procuratorate and the Imperial Court each perform their own duties and there is no distinction between superior and inferior. Now our Procuratorate should be responsible for this case. After sufficient evidence is found, we will proceed.
File a lawsuit with the Imperial Court, and only then will the Imperial Court be able to intervene. If we go to the Imperial Court to discuss it now, it will be tantamount to us being under the control of the Imperial Court, which is even more against the rules."
Chen Qi just nodded slightly. What Su Zhe said and what he was worried about didn't seem to refer to the same thing.
Su Zhe also knew what he was thinking, so he added: "The most subtle thing about the public prosecutor's office and the law is that the three do not belong to each other, and they check and balance each other. Then the responsibilities are shared with each other. Even if you want to offend someone, the other party does not know who should be counted."
Who is responsible? If we all work together, it will make us all tied up and unable to attack ourselves."
These words moved Chen Qi. They should check and balance each other. This responsibility can also be transferred to each other.
"also!"
Su Zhe continued: "You just said that Chen Guang came here to ask how to go to the Imperial Court to file a complaint. It can be seen that the people of Hezhong Prefecture only have the Imperial Court and not our Procuratorate. This is also extremely detrimental to the construction of the entire Public Security Bureau.
If this continues, the people will only recognize the imperial court. This will also force our procuratorate and police station to succumb to the imperial court. The checks and balances between each other will also be broken. Our procuratorate should do something to make it easier for the people to understand our entire public prosecutor's office.
.”
He is very clear about what his duties are. When he was in the Procuratorate in the capital, he kept an eye on the Imperial Court and the Police Station, as well as the Taxation Department.
After the Suizhou case, he became more wary of the imperial court, and he also suspected that this military imperial court had another purpose.
In fact, Zhao Xu reused Wang Anshi's reform, and the group headed by Sima Guang was suspicious, because Wang Anshi's reform was financial. To say that it was to make money for the country was not an exaggeration at all. It would inevitably make people guess that your emperor is so
Why are you so anxious to make money?
Building a palace is unlikely. Zhao Xu paid such a high political price just to build a palace.
It can only be prepared for war.
Su Che was also deeply worried about this. The key point was that he believed that Zhang Fei had too much power. He not only had the power of precedent but also the power of judicial interpretation.
If you stop looking at it, this imperial court will not be able to go to heaven!
If the procuratorate wants to supervise the imperial court, it must have the authority to match the imperial court. If the difference between the two is too big, it will be difficult for the procuratorate to check and balance the imperial court.
At this time, Zhao Xu, who was in Bianjing, did not know the final verdict yet, but he had received a letter from Zhang Fei and learned that the government was using finances to make things difficult for the Public Security Bureau, and that the Hezhong Prefecture ordered the review of Erbi official documents to hinder the construction of the Public Security Law.
So an important meeting was immediately held.
"Since the Public Security Bureau must be independent from the government, this finance should not be handed over to the local government. Otherwise, the Public Security Bureau will also be subject to checks and balances by the government."
Fu Bi said slightly worriedly.
Wen Yanbo said: "However, if the public prosecutor and the law are allowed to directly intervene in finance, the government will be weak, and it will be difficult for the two to check and balance each other."
Fu Bi nodded and said, "That's true."
Wang Anshi said: "In this case, it is better for the inner treasury to be directly responsible for the finances of the Public Security Bureau."
"How can this be done?"
Sima Guang immediately objected: "The Public Security Bureau and the Procuratorate are in charge of the country's judiciary and are subordinate to the Trial Court, the Ministry of Punishment, and the Dali Temple. If the internal treasury is responsible for the finances, there is no reason at all, and the national system will be in chaos."
Fu Bi hurriedly said: "What Scholar Sima said makes sense, but it is indeed inconsistent with the imperial system."
The Public Security Bureau can be directly responsible to the emperor. After all, the emperor is the supreme leader. But if the finance of the Public Security Bureau is to be handled by the emperor's inner treasury, then the judiciary is equivalent to being privately owned by the emperor. These prime ministers will definitely not agree. This is completely undermining the national system.
.
Zhao Xu remained silent, "Then what do you think we should do?"
Sima Guang pondered for a while and said: "In fact, the expenditures of the imperial court and the procuratorate are not very large. They can be directly responsible for the central government. The expenditures are from the taxes paid to the central government and are included in the financial expenditures of the Criminal Court, the Ministry of Punishment, and the Dali Temple.
Among them, the largest expenditure is actually the police station. The finance of this police station is still left to the local government. This can also reduce the burden on the national treasury. Now in Bianjing, many decrees of the Kaifeng Prefecture also require the cooperation of the police station.
"
Wen Yanbo nodded and said, "I think Bachelor Sima's arrangement should be more reasonable."
Wang Anshi and others did not object.
Zhao Xu said: "This matter will be left to the Third Division, the Privy Council, and the Court of Punishment for coordination."
Why does the Privy Council need to be involved? First of all, part of the police station's finances are included in the military. Secondly, the Privy Councilor Chen Shengzhi currently serves as the chief of the Ordinance Department of the Second Government, so Wang Anshi can also participate.
"I obey."
Zhao Xu asked again: "Concerning the Erbi official document, how do you think we should deal with it?"
Sima Guang said: "As for the Erbi, I think the court should be very cautious, because the Erbi will inevitably increase the burden on the government. Before the public security law is mature, the court should still impose some restrictions on the Erbi.
The minister suggested that Cha Shi people and Erbi should be counted separately. The local government should still be responsible for the official documents of Cha Shi people. After all, many people were illiterate and had to find someone to write the documents for them.
At the same time, the local authority to issue Erbi official documents is taken back. If you want to obtain this official document, you must come to Bianjing to take the exam, and this aspect can be left to the Ministry of Punishment and the Academy of Legal Studies.
Moreover, the imperial court can also designate in official documents those places where Erbi can conduct litigation. In places where there is no public prosecutor, I think it cannot be changed easily, lest the local government will be difficult to cope with."
His suggestion immediately received support from all political officials.
Although they support the public security law, they are still very cautious about Erbi. They have seen the power of those Erbi. If officials are not capable in this regard, they will be completely influenced by Erbi, which will affect the authority of the government. , and according to their understanding, there are many officials who lack the ability in this area.
Zhao Xu didn't have much idea about this. Seeing that they all agreed, he agreed.
After the meeting, after Fu Bi, Wen Yanbo, and Lu Gong left, Wang Anshi suddenly grabbed Sima Guang and said: "Sima Junshi, we meet every day, why don't we say it in person instead of writing a letter?" Give it to me, if anyone knows about it, they will think that we are plotting something."
"I bother!"
Sima Guang immediately raised his hand and broke away, "I am writing to you because I don't want to quarrel with you. If you don't amend the Green Seedlings Law, I will never let you succeed."
Wang Anshi smiled and said: "Sima Junshi, when we were talking about usury, you also hated it. Now I want to reform and stop usury, but you want to oppose it. What's the point of this?"
Sima Guang smiled, "Are you trying to stop usury, or are you allowing usury? This green seedling law came from the period of feudal rule in the late Tang Dynasty. It was for the purpose of amassing money. Why do you have the nerve to ask me?"
Wang Anshi immediately said: "My young crops are very different from those in the late Tang Dynasty. Nowadays, those landlords charge at least double the interest, but I suggest that the court only charge 20% of the interest. Isn't this a blessing to the people of the world?" "
Sima Guang looked surprised and said: "If you charge interest, then this is a business. You also say that you benefit the people. Where do you have the shame? The liquidation method is the method that truly benefits the people and is for the sake of the people.
Also, you should also know that the people who were forced to lose their families and their families were not all caused by the one-time interest rate. Even if they were 20%, they might not be able to repay it. Then the government would randomly lend the money out, so what if they couldn't collect it? manage?"
Wang Anshi said: "If you want to borrow money from the court, you need to find someone to guarantee it. This will ensure that everything is safe."
Sima Guang was waiting here and immediately said: "The government is infallible, but what about the people? Who will be willing to guarantee for others to borrow money? It will inevitably become the case that the government will force people to guarantee money, and even use this to exploit the superiors. Huh, this is more terrifying than that yamen frontman."
Wang Anshi laughed angrily, "You are simply being unreasonable, so I can also say that there are many shortcomings in the public prosecutor's law. If the president of the court, the chief prosecutor, and the superintendent work together, it will inevitably lead to the corruption of law and order, and even the neglect of the government. You cannot use certain corrupt officials to judge whether this method is good or bad."
Sima Guang snorted: "You are just making excuses. The purpose of judicial reform is to make the judiciary more fair. Officials will naturally be wary of this. And your method is to make money. Officials will also put money first, regardless of the lives of the people." .”
Wang Anshi said: "You are making partial generalizations. My method is to get the best of both worlds. While the country benefits, it can also reduce the burden on the people and avoid land annexation. Nowadays, nine out of ten households that are extinct are being loaned out at usury." If you are forced to do so, if this continues, this country will inevitably be in chaos, and it must be changed."
Sima Guang said: "But have you ever thought that the government can still mediate and stop private usury, but if the government lends money, who will supervise it? You said it is 20%, but if the government lends twice as much, what will you do?"
Wang Anshi said: "Then I will punish you severely."
Sima Guang said: "Do you still remember that Wang Hong? Why did the court give him a wide berth in the first place? Isn't it because he could collect taxes? If those officials could amass huge wealth for the court, I don't believe you would go.
Punish severely, even if you want to punish severely, I'm afraid other people will say that you have to put the overall situation first. All the money has been spent, who has the nerve to punish those who make money for the court.
This kind of thing had already happened during the reign of Emperor Wu of the Han Dynasty. Emperor Wu of the Han Dynasty knew clearly that those officials used various means to exploit the people and make money for the court, but he still turned a blind eye."
Faced with Sima Guang's question, Wang Anshi just smiled and said, "You study history books every day and ignore the reality, so that you always look forward and backward when doing things, and are timid. I am not Sang Hongyang, and I am not an official, nor is I Emperor Wu of the Han Dynasty. How can I generalize? I have
This method has been implemented in local areas and achieved very good results, but you still use history books to question me. This is simply ridiculous."
Sima Guang said: "In terms of experience in governing prefectures and counties, I am not as good as you. However, the world is bustling with people for their own benefit. This is an eternal principle. Using history as a mirror, we can know the rise and fall. This is a wise saying.
It's simply unreasonable for you to use the laws of one county to govern the affairs of the whole country."
Wang Anshi also started to get angry, and said angrily: "That's better than sitting back and waiting for death! If you are capable, you can come up with a way to stop this usury. You can't come up with a way, but you don't allow others to get rid of the bad government. Such a minister, you want to
What's the use?"
"What did you say?"
Sima Guang stared angrily.
"Farewell!"
Wang Anshi waved his sleeves and left.
Sima Guang was so angry that he gnashed his teeth, lowered his head and stamped his feet.
"If he had listened to advice, he would not have been Wang Jiefu."
Wen Yanbo suddenly came over.
Sima Guang glanced at him and sighed: "If I hadn't taken care of Zhang San, I really wouldn't want to stay in this court."
Wen Yanbo said: "Since Zhang San is taken into consideration, Zhang San should be allowed to play his role."
Sima Guang was stunned and asked: "How can Duke Wen say this?"
Wen Yanbo said: "The reason why many people still support the Public Security Bureau is that they hope that the Public Security Bureau can check and balance the new law. If we can't stop this young law, then let Zhang San do it."
Sima Guang asked: "What Duke Wen means is to let the Green Miao Method be tried out in Hezhong Prefecture first."
Wen Yanbo nodded.
Sima Guang said worriedly: "But Zhang San's life in Hezhong Mansion is not easy now, so we shouldn't cause him any more trouble!"
Wen Yanbo said: "Nowadays, many ministers are opposed to the Youth Law. Even Chen Shengzhi is silent about it. If the Public Security Law can play its role, it will definitely win the support of more people."
As Wang Anshi said, Sima Guang always looked forward and backward in everything. He pondered for a while and said: "There is no rush now. The Regulations on the Establishment of the Second Government have not been officially promulgated. I will write a letter to Zhang San first to see if he can cope with it."